Tarot for the 21st Century!
Let's say I pick a card for the past, the present and the future, and get the 8 of Swords, Strength and The Chariot. I would think that means, generally, that I overcame past problems and will be moving on to bigger and better things.
Then I read that Strength is Leo and The Chariot is Cancer so the two cards I thought could work together are actually enemies - fire and water.
What do I do here?
So much cool food for thought! Thanks John!
--> "Make yourself stay with it for a bit longer."
What do you do when seemingly unrelated things (I mean like song melodies or old adages) pop into your head that have absolutely nothing to do with the card? Should you ignore them or mention them to the querant?
--> "A chart doesn't tell you anything until you ask it a question."
OMG -you can ask a chart a question?? I mean, i just cast my chart on astrodienst and read what it said and tried to memorize the planet and sign symbols and the ideas of the energy of the signs and planets - still working on all the aspects and have no idea what to do with Lilith and Chiron!... on a funny note I do have "The Only Astrology Book You'll Ever Need"...but...um, I think I need another one-lol. Like, where do you learn how to ask your chart a question? Also, which type of chart can you ask questions of - just your natal chart?
--> "You understand the criminal mind, so you'd make a good lawyer."
How weird! Or I guess, totally makes sense -- I used to be a legal assistant on many criminal cases and worked with a lot of attorneys on civil rights cases - does this make that like a destiny thing?
--> "Make sure the questioner has a question, but don't ask what it is. Pick some cards and do a reading."
Sounds like a great idea --- I'm gonna practice with this and see how it goes..
I've tried the Golden Dawn Opening of the Key Spread -- it's a doozy but pretty fun if you're into very complicated time-consuming things which I often am-lol- in the beginning you cut the cards into 4 piles - each represents an element - you use a significator for the querant and you look to see which pile the significator falls into. In addition to representing an element each pile also represents an area of life that the question pertains to. When you find the significator, you tell the querant what their question is about - if you're wrong you do not continue with the reading. I find it fascinating but not sure what I think of it - whether it's an indication of the connection between reader and querant or of the reader's ability.... I've tried it and gotten it right a few times and gotten it wrong a few times...
But, "the Wednesday's child is Full of Woe" thing - geesh! I hate that! Don't wanna be "full of woe!" I want to control this at once! :) teasing... But, of course, it's not the first time I've heard it. I get this image in my head of a person walking around with a little ever-present raincloud over their head :(
In my defense so everyone doesn't think I'm a total bummer -- I have to say that I'm generally pretty positive and even probably overcompensate by going out of my way to see the silver lining...but I guess in a way I was born of "woe" (daughter of a runaway, blah, blah, blah) and have seen much "woe" (civil rights work, death, etc...) - Could it mean "full of woe" in one of those ways instead of gloomy with the ability to spot woe? ....whoa...
Thanks so much John for taking the time to illuminate me!
Hi John -
--> "The Moon is also the mother, so she was in jail or tied up [is this in some way why you saw the 8 of Swords that way] metaphorically at least."
nope...child abuse - ran away at 14, had me at 15...but I guess that's a couple ways of being tied up or "stuck"
But, I really try to do my best to go beyond what I may bring with me astrologically
- in my Gilded Tarot deck the 8 of Swords has a woman blindfolded and bound and surrounded by swords like she's in a cage...so she's stuck, trapped, caged, etc...in some way it's "airy" it could just be in her head and I associate Swords with air which makes me think of thoughts, ideas, etc and I also associate them with challenges (Tarot Dynamics)...
- and I have a cute little mini Tarot deck and the 8 of Swords in that deck has a person with 8 swords forming a box like a window around their upper body - so it looks to me like a window and the bottom 2 Swords of the window look like they're cutting her in half - so its also around her head and so to me the person is trapped in their head which they can overcome because the 8 indicates to me that the concept of some sort of "renovation" (again from Tarot Dynamics) comes into play - but I kind of just let that thought pass until I see Strength (another 8) next to it, a Fire card - the air fuels the fire and all of a sudden the idea of "renovation" comes back and I see a robust fire burning on one side and the watery Chariot taming the flame on the other side - the fire having an affect on two cards that would otherwise get along - so it seems that it's Strength applied in 2 separate ways - the lady or the lion ...um, if that made any sense at all I'll be grateful-lol
But, that's not to say I'm right or I even think I'm right or think I'm some sort of fixed sign demi-god ...I'm really just trying to figure it all out, study as much as I can and go with what I'm drawn to and throw out what I'm not really feeling. I have to say I just don't think its my moon or my mother...
Thanks for the awesome links! I found the "analytical astrology" very cool - I used to be an analyst before I got into the law stuff... it made me think of something about why I like using the elements with Tarot cards. As an analyst the difference between a "possibility" and a "probability" was key. And for me using the elements feels like it gets me one step closer to a probability, like I've got another set of data already in the cards to apply to the question - and things make more sense to me as well when it comes to relating the cards to one another because I can visualize how the elements might interact with one another.
But, I keep reading and testing out different systems and keep expanding and contracting what I apply to my readings....so who knows what will end up being the end all be all for me? Elements? Numbers? Symbols? Astrology? Tree of Life? Intuition? or all of them put together --dunno yet...but I'm on the case and it's pretty cool so far and I'm really digging the elements.
I did say "metaphorically" and wanted to make a point about the conditions the mother had to deal with. I wasn't saying your mother was in jail.
After all this, using elements seems like a very long way for a short-cut.
Can I expect any input from the person whose group this is?
This is all very well and theoretical, but what do these three cards actually mean or say? Telling me I have a "bridging" card here is fine, but as a questioner looking for answers and maybe guidance, that doesn't do a lot for me. So what in fact is going on and what will be going on?
Thanks very much for your input, and your kind words about the videos.
I wonder if you could tell me what you would say about just one of the cards I originally asked about - the 8 of Swords, Strength and the Chariot - in the light of the elements. So, for instance, what would you say the 8 of Swords shows or means, and then how would this meaning be changed because it is next to a Fire card? Or what would Strength be, and how would the meaning be changed or have to be amended because of the presence of Water right next to it?
I know it's confusing, especially if you're not accustomed to reading with elements. You're using the past present and future spread and that may not be the easiest way to work in the elemental relationships.
To me, it's all about layers. In other words, for instance, your reading a past, present, future reading. You will read your spread accordingly. You'll see your answer, you will read the meanings in the individual cards and then, as an added layer, or maybe in depth or even clarification, you'll interpret your elements. Since your focus or initial reading is not about elements you don't have to worry so much. It's beautiful if you can work it in but don't stress. I think Mary Greers book '21 ways to read a card' explains this best. In the back of her book she describes her understanding of the elements. It's a wonderful way to get familiar with the process. She uses a 3 card spread but not in the traditional past, present, future way, but as elements and powers and how they effect each other. Once you're comfortable and familiar with the process you'll see how the elements interact with each other in a traditional or other spread.
I have a way of reading my spreads before I begin. I 'incorporate' the elements into my reading as they begin to speak to me. In other words. I don't always notice or need to notice the elements in a spread.
Very often I work an elemental type spread. This is where I know I will pay particular attention to the elements before I start. Some of my decks are element heavy and that is how I read them. Many times I do not intend to read the elements but they show themselves so boldly that I must read that way. I would recommend Mary Greers book and just start throwing her 3 card spreads and getting used to the relationships. Eventually you will see the relationships in your traditional or more comfortable spreads. It just speaks to you. Or not! It just may not be your thing!
You are such an awesome reader that you needn't worry. Relax. Go with the flow. Let Spirit guide you! And remember, if you want something bad enough, you'll make it happen!
Thanks for your reply. Any chance of an example of your method in action?
Absolutly! I must get busy with my day job for the moment. I'll pull an elemental spread tomorrow or Wednesday with the intention of explaining.
It's kind of one of those things you just feel and do. I know that seeing it would be much more helpful.
I re read your question and now I think I'm going to be answering a question that you didn't ask. I had said I didn't think that the Past Present Future (PPF) spread would be ideal for this. I'm not fond of the PPF and don't do them often. This morning I played with the spread with the elements in mind. This is what I came up with. Keep in mind this is a rather elementary and may not be what you have in mind.
Let's say you are doing a PPF and the querent askes for information about an upcoming job or promotion. Will she get it? etc.
You would draw your three cards and read them in the manor that you do. I would use the elements only if they spoke up to me, as an additional layer. They may or may not directly affect your previous read. For example. From your spread you determine that she may get the job. You then notice that in the 3 cards there are E W W or WWW. That would say to me there is a lot of feminine energy. A lot of emotion. While she may get the job she is dealing with some emotional issue in her life. I would ask a few questions and possibly get her to see where she can stabilize some of this energy. She's out of balance here. Maybe Chakra work, grounding and centering. What can she do to bring in more projective energies. As you talk with your querent you'll see better how to direct her.
If you get a no and you see E W W or WWW in the spread I would suspect that there is some emotional block that needs to be addressed before she can move forward with the new job. Maybe she wants the job to be closer to her boyfriend and is not really qualified for the job. You know the possibilites are endless.
Bottom line is, if there is an imbalance in the elements such as this, the querent should be directed to bring in other energies in order to move forward or somehow balance the energies she has.
In this case as in most of my element reads I read the elements as a different layer. In addition to the primary read. Sometimes it affects the read but sometimes it answers a question not asked by the querent. Many times I'm not affected by the elements.
I do hope this makes sense. I have such a different reading style than you that I'm afraid I may confuse you more than anything else.
>and may not be what you have in mind.
That doesn't matter. I appreciate that you took the time to try something and then type it out.
>in the 3 cards there are E W W or WWW. That would say to me there is a lot of feminine energy. A lot of emotion.
I can see what you mean, but I think that this is where it would be useful to have actual cards in the example. The thing is that WWW might be exactly what is needed in the situation and it's not out of balance.
The eww or www might be showing that the person is not going to run out of steam or lose momentum, but is going to be able to work steadily to complete what is needed - because that's what feminine elements do.
I'm not sure why eww or www would show that the person is, as you say, "out of balance here". It might, but it could be a value judgement on your part. It reminds me of the idea that if you have no planets in earth in your natal chart, then you are deficient in some way and ought to do something about it, to counteract the lack. However, it may be more to the point that the person already understands earth and is learning about other factors. Bill Gates, who knows a thing or two about earthy matters, has no planets in that element.
>I do hope this makes sense.
I think it does, but considering actual cards and their meanings might have been useful.
Again, many thanks for taking the time to reply.
And you are right John. That's how you read and it is right and maybe what I'd see too. I didn't list actual cards because sometimes the elements speak to me in a different layer. And maybe that is a intuitive connection with the querent. Many times I read a spread and then the elements say something unrelated to the cards. In other words, it wouldn't matter if it was a 3 of cups, 8 of cups and 4 of Pents. I would be asking, 'What's going in your heart and emotions that we need to look at. At this point I've already answered the question with the cards but now am looking at something not asked. Something more spiritual. Personal. Of course you could, should but might not relate the element to the question. I'm just saying that sometimes the elements take me somewhere else. I love that the cards speak to me in multiple modalities, taking me here, there and everywhere.
You're a wonderful reader John! I've watched many of your You Tube Vids and have learned so very much from you.
Thank you dear!